2008 June 06 SEDS-USA Rocket Competition Transcript
From SEDSWiki
| SEDS-USA Rocket Competition Meeting, June 6, 2008 |
|
Time: 12:00pm EST |
[11:54:06 AM] joshua.v.nelson says: Afternoon [11:54:20 AM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: hello [11:54:39 AM] joshua.v.nelson says: Since ryan's mike is broken we'll use text chat [11:54:43 AM] *** Jenny Scott-Thompson added iain.waugh to this chat *** [11:55:25 AM] joshua.v.nelson says: We'll get started in about 10 minutes. [11:58:41 AM] joshua.v.nelson says: Has anyone heard from Rick Hanton of Iowa State? [12:02:06 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Pardon the delay, I am attempting to contact the chapters not here: Iowa, WPI, and Caltech. [12:02:10 PM] mclinkor says: just asked libby (wpi): she didn't know it was now [12:02:23 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Can she get on Skype? [12:02:25 PM] mclinkor says: she doesn't have skype [12:02:54 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Do you all have AIM? [12:03:05 PM] Iain Waugh says: what's AIM? [12:03:13 PM] mclinkor says: guess that answers that question [12:03:30 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ryan, could you walk her through downloading it quick? [12:03:55 PM] mclinkor says: I'm getting the impression she's busy right now [12:04:01 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: k [12:04:30 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Allright. I guess we'll go with what we've got, and if more join so be it. [12:05:04 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: We've got Ryan McLinko representing MIT, Jenny and Iain representing Cambridge [12:05:25 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Chapters missing: WPI, Caltech, Iowa [12:05:31 PM] *** mclinkor has changed the chat topic to "SEDS Rocket Competition" *** [12:05:51 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ok the first agenda item is an announcement [12:06:07 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: we were originally planning to host the competition in conjunction with the X PRIZE Cup in Las Cruces New Mexico [12:06:19 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: we've now been informed the X PRIZE Cup will not be happening this year [12:06:58 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Needless to say this is a slight problem, given sponsors were previously looking at exposure to about 100,000 people [12:08:18 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'd like to host a roundtable discussion on what we should do with the competition, both with location and timing [12:08:46 PM] Rick Hanton says: hi, sorry I was late [12:08:51 PM] mclinkor says: do you have any other options that you'd like to suggest [12:09:27 PM] Rick Hanton says: I don't have any off the top of my head. [12:09:33 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: How much do we rely on the sponsors? What do we require from a location? Ideally timing should stay similar, since that's what we've all been planning for. [12:10:04 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Sponsors would determine the size of the prize [12:10:25 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: in the end, that is the primary reason for funding. This is a low cost competition otherwise [12:10:29 PM] Rick Hanton says: For our team, the timing is not a heavy issue. We don't mind pushing it back if needed. [12:10:30 PM] *** joshua.v.nelson added Ryan Caron to this chat *** [12:11:19 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ok, just brief introductions of the people entering [12:11:24 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: we have Rick Hanton of Iowa [12:11:28 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: and Ryan Caron of WPI [12:11:56 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: So then I guess first item would be timing [12:12:13 PM] Rick Hanton says: I apologize if my connection goes out. I'm in Rome right now. [12:12:29 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Do you guys think you would be ready to compete in late October, or should we push the competition back to a different date in conjunction with some other event? [12:12:55 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Note that would also allow more time to secure sponsors and prizes. [12:13:00 PM] Iain Waugh says: We would be. what other events are there, and when are they? [12:13:27 PM] Rick Hanton says: I think that our team could be ready by October, but it would be difficult and we also go to a big midwest rocket launch at about that time every year. [12:13:42 PM] mclinkor says: same deal for mit [12:13:51 PM] Iain Waugh says: what was the prize originally and how important is it to the teams?? [12:14:12 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Originally the GOAL was for a prize of around $5,000 but we're having trouble finding sponsors [12:14:23 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'll get to teh prize more after this discussion [12:14:39 PM] Ryan Caron says: things have been slower than we would like at WPI, so we could make good use of any delays [12:14:49 PM] Rick Hanton says: Same here. [12:15:27 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ok, so lets hold a formal vote. All in favor of moving the competition back? (Aye/Nay/Abstain) [12:15:34 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: (one vote per team/chapter) [12:15:39 PM] Ryan Caron says: aye [12:15:41 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: Nay from Cambridge [12:15:53 PM] Rick Hanton says: Aye [12:15:58 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: Though more info on how far back you want to move it would be helpful [12:16:48 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Knowing people want to move it back, I would look into some alternatives and report back to you guys in a week or so [12:17:17 PM] Rick Hanton says: Do you have any current ideas on alternatives? [12:17:56 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: Are we talking a month, a few months, 6 months or a year? [12:18:00 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: idea wise I think there is a big mid west air show early Spring [12:18:08 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: or we could do that three day weekend in February [12:18:29 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I want to avoid November, given the Space Vision conference, and finals [12:18:50 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: A launch at the Space Vision conference would be impossible given the population density in Texas, we've already looked into it [12:18:54 PM] Rick Hanton says: There is the Oshkosh Airventure at the end of July. [12:19:28 PM] Rick Hanton says: The pop in Oshkosh is somewhat high, but the airport is a bit out of town surrounded by farmland and a lake on 3 sides. [12:19:47 PM] Rick Hanton says: It would set the date back a lot though [12:20:09 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: thats a bit setback in date, but I'll look into it. [12:20:21 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Anyone know of any other events we may be able to partner with? [12:20:51 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I did consider the World Space Expo, but that would mean launching over water and probably not recovering [12:21:09 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: IAC is in Glasgow, but it might be possible to travel from there to a deserted part of Scotland [12:21:10 PM] Ryan Caron says: i'd like to avoid having my payloads go in the drink [12:21:19 PM] Rick Hanton says: Me too. [12:21:44 PM] Ryan Caron says: and i think asking the tems to go to IAC is way too much; best to stay within country [12:21:47 PM] Rick Hanton says: We would have electronics I'd like to use again on the rocket and balloon. [12:21:56 PM] Ryan Caron says: bringing this stuff across borders could be complicated [12:22:02 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Primarily this is a US competition which we are allowing outside teams to compete in [12:22:08 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: so I'd like to keep it in the US if possible [12:22:28 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: and yeah, ITAR sucks. [12:22:41 PM] Rick Hanton says: It would probably need to be somewhere in the South or West. There aren't a lot of places in the Midwest where we will difinitavely get clearance that we need. [12:22:58 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: ok. If you guys come up with any ideas, let me know [12:23:06 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: brainstorm with your teams and let me know if you think of anything [12:23:11 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'll look into Oskosh [12:23:18 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: and some other potential sites [12:23:43 PM] Rick Hanton says: Sounds good. [12:23:49 PM] Ryan Caron says: ok, so right now both locale and timeframe are TBD, but we're looking at Feb-Apr perhaps? [12:24:13 PM] Rick Hanton says: That would be a great timeframe if we can do it then. [12:24:37 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ok. [12:24:54 PM] *** joshua.v.nelson added nfette to this chat *** [12:25:04 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Welcome Nicholas from Caltech [12:25:15 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: we've now got all chapters represented. [12:25:39 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ok next item on the plate: the prize [12:25:58 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: SEDS has been having our sponsorship proposal looked over by representatives from Raytheon and TI [12:26:13 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: they are very hesitant to fund anything with pure cash prizes [12:26:23 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: and recommend we change the prize from a pure cash prize [12:26:39 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: to something inspirational like a trip to a significant space event [12:27:03 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I would like to know what you guys think about having the prize be a trip to see a shuttle launch [12:27:26 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: with the airfare and hotel covered, along with an exclusive behind the scenes tour at JSC if possible. [12:27:37 PM] mclinkor says: is anyone banking on money budgetwise? [12:27:45 PM] Rick Hanton says: That may be neat, but this project will eat a lot of cash. That puts a lot more burden on the teams to be paying for things. [12:27:47 PM] mclinkor says: (we aren't) [12:27:50 PM] nfette says: No, a trip would be fine. [12:28:01 PM] Iain Waugh says: Nope, that sounds like a sweeter prize if you ask me. do it!!! [12:28:07 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: we aren't - we have found our own sponsorship for the building [12:28:18 PM] nfette says: Maybe would should ask for parts sponsorship from them. [12:28:33 PM] Rick Hanton says: We are allowed to put sponsor stuff on our rockets, correct? [12:28:34 PM] Ryan Caron says: i agree; a behind the tour at KSC would be sweet. I did a JSC tour at a conference last year. got to see both MOCR rooms [12:28:45 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Of course Rick. This is SEDS. We support commercial Space :) [12:28:48 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: we're not NASA ;) [12:29:07 PM] Rick Hanton says: Just wanted to check. [12:29:28 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ok, all in favor of a non-cash prize such as the trip mentioned above? (Aye/Nay/Abstain) [12:29:34 PM] nfette says: Aye [12:29:35 PM] Ryan Caron says: WPI aye [12:29:37 PM] mclinkor says: i [12:29:43 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: aye [12:29:49 PM] Rick Hanton says: abstain [12:29:58 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: 4-0-1 [12:30:21 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: ok. Those are the main items I had for this meeting. At this time I'd like to open it up for any questions or discussions the teams may have [12:30:28 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: for either me or the other teams [12:30:28 PM] Rick Hanton says: Would we then still be looking at multiple sponsors, or just 1? [12:30:55 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Rick, I'm going to look for multiple sponsors for the competition as a whole. If we find one that wants to cover the entire bill, great. [12:31:06 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'll need to run some numbers [12:31:17 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: despite Raytheon, etc..'s interest in this trip [12:31:25 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: it could come out to be quite expensive :) [12:32:08 PM] Rick Hanton says: OK [12:32:15 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Any other questions or items for debate? [12:32:29 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: I'd like to make one quick point [12:32:36 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Sure Jenny [12:32:37 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: I know we're probably going for a much later date [12:32:53 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: but would like to note that it gives a major advantage to teams that were previously behind [12:32:58 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: since they can then catch up [12:33:02 PM] Ryan Caron says: if we're talking about simultaneous balloons in the air, we need to make sure we don't interfere with each other's freqs [12:33:50 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Jen, duely noted, but unfortunetly I dont think it can be avoided. And in the end will lead to a much better competition overall [12:34:01 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: Yeah, fair enough [12:34:31 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ryan thats a good point [12:34:37 PM] Rick Hanton says: In terms of frequencies, what are people planning on using for communications? [12:34:55 PM] nfette says: Haven't picked a radio yet. [12:35:08 PM] Ryan Caron says: we'll have GPS/APRS beacons on both balloon and payload, so that 144.39MHz [12:35:24 PM] Ryan Caron says: probably have uplink somewhere in the 70cm band [12:35:32 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: Was the plann for simultaneous balloons in the air? I'd assumed they'd be one after the other [12:35:37 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: A reminder, teams are responsible for obtaining any certifications necessary for the launching and operation of their vehicle [12:35:52 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: We havent made that decision yet Jenny, would depend on host site [12:36:04 PM] Iain Waugh says: for example, what certifications are necessary in the US?? [12:36:17 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: depends on what frequency you are operating in [12:36:25 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: some are open, some you need licensing [12:36:26 PM] Ryan Caron says: given the fact that it will likely take 3 hours min to get to altitude, i think a sequential lineup would be excessively long [12:36:40 PM] Rick Hanton says: We are using amateur radio bands, so the people operating our radios need a operator's license. [12:36:57 PM] nfette says: Even for startup testing on the ground we will need different frequencies. [12:36:57 PM] Rick Hanton says: I'm not sure the frequencies we use. [12:36:59 PM] Ryan Caron says: WPI is heavy on the amateur radio as well, if you want to do that getting a technician license is not very hard [12:37:14 PM] Rick Hanton says: Pretty simple really. [12:37:18 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: yeah if we dont allow for simultaneous usage [12:37:24 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: people wont be able to test, etc... [12:38:01 PM] nfette says: Just use wired ethernet cables. Only a few miles... [12:38:08 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: the license test is a multiple choice test that you are given the questions to beforehand [12:38:14 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: it is hard to fail [12:38:34 PM] Rick Hanton says: Are we planning on doing any testing before the competition launch? [12:38:52 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Rick, there is testing required in the rules [12:39:10 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: but it is not specified if you have to do it on site or previously [12:39:13 PM] Rick Hanton says: I know that in IA one of our main issues is testing the rocket as required because of a lack of airspace at the heights we need. [12:40:06 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'm curious, how are the various teams simulating their launch and flight at 90,000 feet? [12:40:54 PM] Ryan Caron says: we've done igniter testing in vacuum, haven't gotten much past that yet other than our early balloon flights [12:41:03 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: feel free to message me privately after if you dont want to let other teams know [12:41:07 PM] Rick Hanton says: Computer sims or physical sims? [12:41:30 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: either, I'm just curious. [12:42:04 PM] nfette says: Not yet. Going to try Rocksim on computer and pressure chamber for engine. [12:42:31 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: k [12:42:33 PM] Iain Waugh says: lots of MATLAB [12:42:35 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Anything else from you guys? [12:43:08 PM] Rick Hanton says: For sims we have our own matlab code as well as rocksim and we are flight testing portions on high-altitude balloon flights. [12:43:34 PM] Ryan Caron says: oh, i got one [12:43:59 PM] Ryan Caron says: are the teams bringing their own helium, or can that be on site? [12:44:13 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I was planning on finding a way to provide that on site [12:44:22 PM] Rick Hanton says: We've got the stuff, but that would be cool. [12:44:26 PM] nfette says: That would be nice. [12:44:27 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: as well as finding a local rocketeer [12:44:29 PM] Iain Waugh says: sweet, that would be helpful [12:44:35 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: to do the engines through [12:44:44 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Is everyone planning on using commercially available engines? [12:44:48 PM] Rick Hanton says: Yes. [12:44:54 PM] mclinkor says: yes [12:44:55 PM] nfette says: Yes. [12:45:00 PM] Ryan Caron says: yes [12:45:05 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: because there are major restrictions bringing motors over state lines [12:45:17 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: k [12:45:30 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I think we'll end up finding a local rocket vendor then that we can buy the engines through [12:45:32 PM] Rick Hanton says: Yeah, any ideas about getting around those? [12:45:43 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: so they will be shipped in to the state legally [12:45:46 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: and you just pick them up [12:45:51 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: or he'll deliver them [12:45:58 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: however the law requires it to work [12:46:19 PM] Rick Hanton says: I think we may be able to ship them there, maybe. [12:46:38 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: k. Please lets try not to get SEDS on the international terror watch list [12:46:46 PM] Ryan Caron says: you're no fun [12:46:51 PM] Rick Hanton says: Agreed. [12:47:00 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Hey, you're not the one sending emails to SEDS Iran and SEDS Afghanistan [12:47:03 PM] Rick Hanton says: We usually just throw them in the back of the car. [12:47:05 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'm probably already blacklisted [12:47:11 PM] Rick Hanton says: lol [12:47:34 PM] Rick Hanton says: What are those chapters up to these days? [12:48:09 PM] nfette says: Project orion maybe [12:48:22 PM] Rick Hanton says: If we end up in the midwest, I can hook you up with a vendor for engines. [12:48:36 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Cool Rick. Remind me if we end up there :) [12:48:46 PM] nfette says: I can look for one out west, if you need, but don't know any yet. [12:48:53 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: If no one has anything else, meeting adjourned. Feel free to stay and chat with others afterward. [12:49:01 PM] Rick Hanton says: one more thing. Can you clarify more about the insurance you recommended we get. [12:49:21 PM] Rick Hanton says: because I don't know who the heck would insure this. [12:49:50 PM] nfette says: Sorry, can anybody send me a record of the beginning of this chat? How about airplane insurance? [12:49:55 PM] Iain Waugh says: we've tried in the UK, and it's bloody difficult. Dont know if the states is different [12:50:07 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'll post a transcript of the chat [12:50:11 PM] nfette says: thanks [12:50:13 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: As for the insurance [12:50:15 PM] Rick Hanton says: I haven't even attempted yet. [12:50:34 PM] Jenny Scott-Thompson says: So you've been launching balloons without insurance? [12:50:45 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: pretty easy to do in the states [12:50:51 PM] Ryan Caron says: we have been, but they've been lightweight thus far [12:50:57 PM] nfette says: Here, just claim it's under NAR. [12:51:07 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: balloons with a light payload dont trigger many flags in the states [12:51:13 PM] Rick Hanton says: Technically our group doesn't launch them, but if they are lightweight enough and you keep the gov't in the loop they don't care too much. [12:52:23 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: Ok, as for the insurance question [12:52:39 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: thats one of the advantages of doing it in conjunction with an event like an air show, etc.. [12:52:47 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: we might be able to get on their show insurance [12:52:54 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: if we do this independently it will be more difficult [12:53:02 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: might need to get a rocketry organization to join in [12:53:09 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: to piggyback off their insurance [12:53:32 PM] Rick Hanton says: Those organizations don't have a ton of insurance, mind you. [12:53:57 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: *nods* but given we'll be getting clearance from the FAA and all, [12:54:10 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: and not launching near any human habitations [12:54:15 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: minimal is all we'll need [12:54:30 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: if we choose a site closer to human habitations, we'll need to look into more insurance [12:54:32 PM] Rick Hanton says: Well, if we use an air show, most are near habitation. [12:55:30 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: but bigger insurance policy [12:55:48 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: actually [12:55:59 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: do any of you know of any big rocket organization fly offs [12:56:21 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: possibly mid west, south west, etc? [12:56:31 PM] mclinkor says: ldrs [12:56:52 PM] Rick Hanton says: We visit LDRS in Kansas in the spring months (rained out for a week this year). [12:57:49 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: hmmm think it would be a potential host site for this competition? [12:58:00 PM] mclinkor says: i thought ldrs was in the summer [12:58:06 PM] Rick Hanton says: It is in the middle of nowhere. [12:58:25 PM] mclinkor says: and they are generally host to some large and crazy stuff [12:58:25 PM] Rick Hanton says: Yeah, you may be right ryan. [12:58:35 PM] mclinkor says: but it would be a good host [12:58:48 PM] mclinkor says: if we wanted to push back that far [12:58:59 PM] mclinkor says: I just googled and it looks like august [12:59:02 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: I'll add it to the list of considerations [12:59:27 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: would you guys be willing to meet in say... two weeks to discuss the possibilities? [12:59:35 PM] Rick Hanton says: BALLS in AZ looks good too, but it also is in the fall. They have a wavier from FAA to 100k feet already. [12:59:53 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: nice [1:00:00 PM] Rick Hanton says: Sure, two weeks is good (just no weekends). [1:00:10 PM] joshua.v.nelson says: k, I'll try to avoid weekends [1:00:14 PM] Ryan Caron says: two weeks is fine here [1:00:22 PM] mclinkor says: fine here
| 2007-2008 SEDS-USA Meetings |
| Exec Board Minutes: |
| Exec Board Transcripts: 11/27 | 12/04 | 12/11 | 12/18 | 01/01 | 01/08 | 01/15 | 01/22 | 01/29 | 02/05 | 02/12 | 02/19 | 02/26 | 03/04 | 03/11 | 03/18 | 03/25 | 04/01 | 04/08 | 04/15 | 04/22 | 04/29 | 05/06 | 05/13 | 05/20 | 05/27 | 06/03 | 06/10 | 06/17 | 07/01 | 07/08 | 07/15 | 07/22 | 07/29 | 08/05 | 08/12 | 08/26 | 09/02 | 09/09 | 09/16 | 09/23 | 09/30 | 10/07 | 10/14 | 10/21 | 10/28 |
| Special Meetings Transcripts: 12/31 | 06/06 |
| Endowment Fund Minutes: 02/09 |
| Council of Chapters Transcripts: 01/30 | 02/29 | 03/26 | 04/30 | 05/29 | 06/25 | 07/30 | 08/27 |
