SEDSAT-2 Meeting Transcript 20061203

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tom nordheim, Michael Jensen, Amrut Yalagi, Geoff Hilton have joined the conference.

Michael Jensen: a friend, geoff hilton would like to join the conversation...
tom nordheim: "voice server is currently unavailable"
Geoff Hilton: hullo!
Kirk Kittell: hmmm, don't know what that means
Kirk Kittell: was just going to type anyway....
Michael Jensen: right
tom nordheim: ok, no problem then
tom nordheim: Hi my name is * tom nordheim by the way
Michael Jensen: Hi tom
Michael Jensen: I'm michael from canada
Geoff Hilton: (9:13:58 AM) * Michael Jensen: a friend, geoff hilton <-- tis I
Michael Jensen: right
Geoff Hilton: hehe
tom nordheim: I'm in UKseds, but I come from Norway originally
Michael Jensen: obvious from your screen name
Kirk Kittell: cool, nice to meet you Tom
Geoff Hilton: yup, nice to meet you
Michael Jensen: this is wierd... chating without voice...
Michael Jensen: comes from using skype before instant messengers
Geoff Hilton: heh, I've only used skype a few times
Geoff Hilton: it never caught on for me
Michael Jensen: so kirk, what's up?
Michael Jensen: skype does suffer some severe problems...
Kirk Kittell: ok, will start in just a minute...
Kirk Kittell: not much
Kirk Kittell: just getting started here today
Michael Jensen: so are we all :0
Michael Jensen: but you're doing all the work so far
Amrut Yalagi: Hi my name is Amrut frm India
Michael Jensen: Hi amrut
tom nordheim: hi
Amrut Yalagi: nice to see all
Geoff Hilton: I amrut
Michael Jensen: so, what part of the project are you most interested in?

Pradeep Nair has joined the conference.
Kirk Kittell: ok let's start
Pradeep Nair: yeah
Michael Jensen: ready
Kirk Kittell: the SEDSAT research page looks good
Michael Jensen: second
Kirk Kittell: It looks like there is plenty of information there to begin researching the systems that have flown on previous CubeSats
Pradeep Nair: I had d/l a copy of an Excel sheet that I wanted to pass around...but it got stuck since it was larger than 40 kb.. there's a list of all the SEDSAT projects there...Chris has to approve the mail before it gets into the ML...
tom nordheim: since I'm new here: is there a specific mission decided yet?
Kirk Kittell: on, last week we decided on very basic requirements
Kirk Kittell: nothing specific for a mission -- we want to build a remote-sensing CubeSat
Kirk Kittell: today we are going to refine that requirement
Geoff Hilton: with a camera? what form of sensing?
tom nordheim: ok
Kirk Kittell: good question, Geoff -- we can go right to that question now, actually
Michael Jensen: I have a question:
Kirk Kittell: go ahead Mike
Michael Jensen: I am wondering how much time per day/seed/month we are each planing on spending on this project
Michael Jensen: originally I thought about contributing to it as part of a masters...
Michael Jensen: but that would only start in september of next year...
Michael Jensen: now I am quite busy...
Michael Jensen: very interested of course and wanting to contribute...
Michael Jensen: over...
Kirk Kittell: that would be fine -- then your part of the design/build contribution would start later
Michael Jensen: but you folks are planing on spending how much time on it?
Kirk Kittell: right now is research -- we will need dedicated people, but if you can only spend an hour or five hours a week, that is ok now
Michael Jensen: ... lets proceed than
Michael Jensen: what form of sensing?
Michael Jensen: I could of course contribute much over my christmas holidays...
Kirk Kittell: there are a few ways to go about picking the type of sensing
Kirk Kittell: 1) one of your universities may be very competent in a specific type of research and could benefit from being on the satellite
Kirk Kittell: 2) We could find a wavelength that has not been studied
Kirk Kittell: i.e., find a gap in existing data
Michael Jensen: my university could benefit, but from an astronomical satelite, orbiting telescope like most built by canada...
Geoff Hilton: radio wavelength?
tom nordheim: uv or ir perhaps?
Kirk Kittell: maybe -- I think that will be the focus of our research this week
Kirk Kittell: do all of you have at least one or two hours this week to research?
tom nordheim: yes
Pradeep Nair: yes
Geoff Hilton: I'm sure we could fit more than one or two instruments, a cube is six-sided, afterall
Michael Jensen: yes
Kirk Kittell: that is a good point Geoff -- we will also need to research instruments to do the RS, if they are small enough this may work
Kirk Kittell: we won't do the instrument research this week, though
Geoff Hilton: well, if they could be deployable instruments, they could be made larger
Geoff Hilton: deployable as in...built inside the cube itself, and err.. "released" to a more protruding state when the satellite has been released from its carrier
Michael Jensen: a very interesting idea
Michael Jensen: one I had thought of
Michael Jensen: could it work...
Kirk Kittell: interesting idea -- that is how the solar cells were on the CubeSat U of Illinois built
Michael Jensen: exactly...
Michael Jensen: the most logical component to function like this
Michael Jensen: there are others of course
Michael Jensen: like geoff has mentioned
Michael Jensen: antenae...
tom nordheim: gravity boom
Michael Jensen: elaborate...
Geoff Hilton: maybe 1+ sides of the satellite could be concave and act as a satellite dish?
Michael Jensen: would this be a gravity sensing satelite?
tom nordheim: on many cubesats, they've used a deployable gravity boom to do passive stabilization alon one axis
Michael Jensen: sweet!
Geoff Hilton: neat!
Michael Jensen: I need to learn more about gravity booms...
Geoff Hilton: ditto
Michael Jensen: I like the concave satellite dish idea...
tom nordheim: there should be some info non the gravity boom here http://www.ncube.no/project_documents
Michael Jensen: perhaps all six sides of the sattelite could fold out making the dish that much bigger
Michael Jensen: if the dish is thin, the sides could fold out multiply...
Geoff Hilton: heee, Go-Go Gadget, Satellite!
Geoff Hilton: very cool idea
Michael Jensen: the satellite could transform from a cube to a cross
Michael Jensen: the bigger your diameter, the greater your resolution
Michael Jensen: the back of the dish could have solar cells
Geoff Hilton: why just the back?...it could be all unused area, no?
Michael Jensen: back to the sun, look at what you like
Michael Jensen: indeed
Michael Jensen: there might be heat transfer problems if one side were solar pannels and the other side dish
Geoff Hilton: or would we be using up as much of the exposable surface area, as possible, for insruments and such
Geoff Hilton: ah, I hadn't thought of that
Michael Jensen: quite possibly, but i want to hear from the others
Michael Jensen: so, are you all just listning?
Kirk Kittell: one thing to remember: 10cm x 10cm x 10 cm and <1kg
Geoff Hilton: ...right, darn
Kirk Kittell: but that does not make it impossible
Geoff Hilton: what about using ultra-light materials?
tom nordheim: the disadvantage of only having cells on one side is that you will get little sunlight when not facing directly towards the sun

Anbarasan s has joined the conference.
Anbarasan s: acccept the invitation.
Michael Jensen: understood and agreed
Anbarasan s: oo nice.
Anbarasan s: this is Anbarasan.
Michael Jensen: we would have to controol it's orientation somehow,
Anbarasan s: sorru for being so late.
tom nordheim: power is a thing to consider when looking at the different payload ideas
Michael Jensen: hi anbarasan
Anbarasan s: just a sec, i will finifsh other meeting and join you totally.
Geoff Hilton: remember with the rovers? they had originally planned some ultra extravagant fancy landing system, then they thought of the inflatable bubble that surrounds the landers pre-landing, and it's just plastic or something
Michael Jensen: chriss hatfield said that power generation was a serious problem... at least for space stations and space ships
tom nordheim: when we were working on the bifrost cube, we were counting on something between 1-2W of power
Geoff Hilton: we could experiment with the heat transfer issues, or look for a way to counteract them
Geoff Hilton: Hi Anbu
Michael Jensen: what about having two surfaces, seperated by vacuum
Michael Jensen: good insulator...
Michael Jensen: two parallel sheets, one solar cells
Michael Jensen: the other dish
Michael Jensen: very complex
Geoff Hilton: (9:46:36 AM) * Michael Jensen: we would have to controol it's orientation somehow, <-- how do satellites do that nowadays? gyros?
Michael Jensen: ya...
Kirk Kittell: it depends -- this will lead to this week's task, I think
tom nordheim: magnetic coils, gravity boom, reaction wheels
tom nordheim: these are the ones I know of
Michael Jensen: could we build some sort of cubic telescoping telescope? would that have any use?
Geoff Hilton: reaction wheels? as in - a landable satellite?
Michael Jensen: groovy...
Michael Jensen: no
Kirk Kittell: now that we have links to the different projects, let's compile information about the different subsystems they used
Michael Jensen: reaction wheels=giros?
Geoff Hilton: never heard the term before
tom nordheim: just a wheel basically
Geoff Hilton: mind you, I come from a world of software development, not astrophysics, so I'm learning as I go
Michael Jensen: this is orbital dynamics
Michael Jensen: I think...
tom nordheim: yep
tom nordheim: basically just counteracting the spin using small wheels
tom nordheim: to stabilize the satellite
Michael Jensen: storing energy in the spin?
Geoff Hilton: oh, the wheel rotates and acts against...(?).... to orient the satellite?
tom nordheim: yeah
Geoff Hilton: I see
tom nordheim: mind you I'm no expert, but I know a russian guy who's been doing research on this
Michael Jensen: so when the wheel de-celerated, the sattelite gets its spin back.
Geoff Hilton: (9:51:49 AM) Kirk Kittell: now that we have links to the different projects, let's compile information about the different subsystems they used <- in the e-mail?
tom nordheim: http://www.space.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/prism/subsystem/A/index-e.html
Geoff Hilton: ohh...I can picture your description in my head
Kirk Kittell: --- Hey everyone, I am opening a new conference window because Pradeep and Lavina are having difficulties joining this conference

Pradeep Nair/Lavina Parwaniina Parwani have joined the conference.
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: voice chat?
Kirk Kittell: nope, just text
Pradeep Nair: just terminology used by Y!
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: ok, cool. Is it just us?
Pradeep Nair: no, I guess Kirk is inviting the others..
Pradeep Nair: there was a small problem thanks to me...sorry abt that..
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Oh, ok. How are your exams going?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: No, I think the problem was with me as well.

Geoff Hilton/Anbarasan s/tom nordheim have joined the conference.
Geoff Hilton: eh?
Michael Jensen has joined the conference.
Geoff Hilton: oh okay
Michael Jensen: hello?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Hi
tom nordheim: hi
Pradeep Nair: yeah, hold on...Kirk is inviting people..
Geoff Hilton: Hi pradeep!
Pradeep Nair: You're Geoff I guess..
Michael Jensen: we have been having a pretty interesting conversagion
Pradeep Nair: missed it thanks to the jittery conn. here..
Michael Jensen: and yess, hi!
Michael Jensen: this time lets wait until everybody is there before firing up
Geoff Hilton: I am!
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Good, hehe. For those that haven't met me, I'm Lavina
Geoff Hilton: Hi Lavina!
Michael Jensen: hi Lavina! where are you from
tom nordheim: hi
Michael Jensen: I am from canada. so is geoff, tolkein 97
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: the Philippines
Kirk Kittell: all of the talk today has been about potential subsystems
Kirk Kittell: I think we should move forward by collecting specific information to include in our discussions
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Anyway, potential subsystems?
Geoff Hilton: yes! subsystem, my newest favouritest word
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: haha
tom nordheim: laser altimeter?
Pradeep Nair: sure..
Michael Jensen: would you like to start?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Did you have anything in mind in particular?
Geoff Hilton: well, I read from one of your previous meetings you had discussed what you had worked on with sedsat1 I believe?
Kirk Kittell: we discussed briefly, but had no specific info
Geoff Hilton: Power, communications, propulsion, attitude control and so on
tom nordheim: shouldn't we ultimately have different groups for each of these points`?
Kirk Kittell: yeah, we have the subsystems divided, now we need information about what the sybystems would consist of
Kirk Kittell: yes
Kirk Kittell: we do not have a full team yet
Kirk Kittell: is there a subsystem that you want to be responsible for?
tom nordheim: payload would be my thing I suppose
Kirk Kittell: ok, that's good
Geoff Hilton: would each subsystem be situated on specific locations of the satellite? Maybe they could share surface area or be combined?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Maybe what we can do is assign a subsystem to each one here and they can research what it would consist of
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: ?
Kirk Kittell: it depends
Pradeep Nair: Kirk, we might need some time to do ask around with regard to that..since we'll be working in universities..we might have to take permission etc..
Michael Jensen: system integration kind of interests me...
Michael Jensen: how many people do we figure we are going to need?
Kirk Kittell: not sure yet
Kirk Kittell: if it is one group per subsystem, at least seven
Michael Jensen: could you name the 7 subsystems?
Geoff Hilton: yeah..maybe the gravity boom (if it looks the same as it does in my head) could also have another instrument built into the boom, as well as being the ...er...thing that juts out of the centre of a satellite dish (from my concave surface idea)
Michael Jensen: for the record...
Kirk Kittell: here is the list
Geoff Hilton: y'know, since space is at a premium
Kirk Kittell: power, payload, attitude control, structures/mechanical, data handling, communications, ground
Michael Jensen: another question is where we put the satellite... is there only one option, like low or high earth orbit, or are we going geo-synchronous, or can we aim for a lagrange point? or orbit the moon?
Geoff Hilton: data handling sounds like it could be my area, how would it work, specifically?
tom nordheim: I'm guessing the most likely will be Lavina?
Michael Jensen: ya
Kirk Kittell: it depends on who provides the launch
Kirk Kittell: it will be set by that
Michael Jensen: how are communications and ground different?
Kirk Kittell: communications is the stuff onboard
Kirk Kittell: ground does all of the ground control and communications
Pradeep Nair: I think we can start from the last one and go back discussing one at a time...just to avoid confusion...
Geoff Hilton: so communications consists of emitters and minimal receivers?
Michael Jensen: minimal receivers?
Kirk Kittell: I like Lavina's idea -- assign each of us to a subsystem to do research now
Pradeep Nair: I think you can save the questions for when you get to that part...
Michael Jensen: aye
Kirk Kittell: we can not answer all of the questions here until we get more information
Kirk Kittell: (but they are good questions)
Pradeep Nair: we can save them for the next session..
Kirk Kittell: Tom, you will research payload?
tom nordheim: ok
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Unless we have incredible stock knowledge, hehe
Kirk Kittell: Geoff, you said command and data handling?
Geoff Hilton: for communications between the satellite and ground, I figure the satellite would do most of the talking, we would just tell it "go to x, zoom in and take a picture of y lady's house"
Geoff Hilton: I said data handling, what would command entail? I like the sounds of that
Kirk Kittell: ah, that would be part of your research
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: haha
Kirk Kittell: personally, I am an aero guy, and communications is practically German to me
Geoff Hilton: I'm a programmer, so I'd like to think I could handle anything a compiler needs, provided I know what to do with it
Kirk Kittell: two subsystems taken -- does anyone else have a preference?
Pradeep Nair: maybe I can take a knock at structures/mechanical..
Kirk Kittell: let us only call this a two-week commitment for now, for research
Pradeep Nair: since that is what I'm doing...though I probably suck at it..
Kirk Kittell: we are bringing in more people
Michael Jensen: I was considering that as well
Michael Jensen: but there are others
Kirk Kittell: no, don't worry, Pradeep, if you do not know anything yet, that will change
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: I'll take either ground or communications
Pradeep Nair: good chance to learn something as well..I'll take structers etc..
Pradeep Nair: I even didn't get the spelling right...darn...structures etc.
Michael Jensen: power/altitude control... perhaps
Michael Jensen: systems integration...
Kirk Kittell: ok, let me write this all down
Kirk Kittell: yep, systems integration will come later
Pradeep Nair: yeah, I might forget..
Kirk Kittell: when there are systems to integrate
Michael Jensen: no kidding
Kirk Kittell: but that might be a very good thing fo ryour thesis
Geoff Hilton: random question...does the satellite need to follow guidelines for aerodynamics?
tom nordheim: it's in space...
Kirk Kittell: probably not
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: I don't think so
Kirk Kittell: ok, let me write down who the volunteers are....
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: That, and also, it's a Cube
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: supposedly--right?
Michael Jensen: as in a part of the project that will become relevant when my thesis is ready to begin?
Geoff Hilton: (10:13:16 AM) Kirk Kittell: Geoff, you said command and data handling? <-- I just figured out what you meant by command, and sure
Michael Jensen: I really like the idea of the cube becomming a larger surface, perhaps with rubber springs...
Kirk Kittell: Lavina: communications

Pradeep: structures Michael: power and attitude control Tom: payload

Kirk Kittell: Geoff: command and data handling
Michael Jensen: no, don't get the wrong idea..
Michael Jensen: I am not thinking of slinkies...
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Michael, I like that idea, too
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: haha
Nikko Torcita has joined the conference.
Geoff Hilton: Lavina, yeah, but the surface area of the satellite might not be flat if we were to seriously consider the concave surface idea I brought up earlier
Michael Jensen: Hi lemon
Nikko Torcita: hi
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: This would be Nikko
Michael Jensen: where are you?
Nikko Torcita: home
Nikko Torcita: ?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: He's a member of the chapter of SEDS I'm spearheading here in the Philippines
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: haha
Pradeep Nair: nice to meet you...your name is lemon?
Nikko Torcita: nope
Nikko Torcita: nikko
Pradeep Nair: oops.missed that ..sorry..hi nikko...nice to meet you..
tom nordheim: ok, hi nikko
Michael Jensen: hi nikko, welcome to the group!
Nikko Torcita: thx
Kirk Kittell: ok, I am going to leave soon, so I will describe how to document the research for this week
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: He'll be watching the discussion since he'll be helping me with the research
Kirk Kittell: but after I leave, you should still continue the discussion
Michael Jensen: my rubber spring idea and the concave idea can work well together
Geoff Hilton: hi Nikko
Nikko Torcita: hi
Kirk Kittell: The main page is at http://wiki.seds.org/index.php/SEDSAT-2
Kirk Kittell: from that page, there is a link to SEDSAT-2:Research
Pradeep Nair: Kirk, maybe you can do that better with a mail..
Kirk Kittell: yes, but I will just send a preliminary note now
tom nordheim: perhaps there could be a new page for each of the groups?
Kirk Kittell: yes, brilliant
Geoff Hilton: you'd have to explain to me how the springs would be involved..?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: The research page could link to those pages
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Would you like me to create those links now?
Anbarasan s: Hi All. ok let me share some tasks please.
Kirk Kittell: yes, that is exaclty how the wiki works
Kirk Kittell: We will meet again next weekend -- I will let you all decide the day and time after I leave
Michael Jensen: hi anbu-that is your name?
Kirk Kittell: I will send an email later with who is responsible for the different subsystems
Anbarasan s: yes.
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Anbarasan, you were going to share some tasks?
Anbarasan s: Yes, sure.
Kirk Kittell: right now, consider yourselves the subsystem leads
Michael Jensen: I have two things, power and altitude control, you can have one...
Anbarasan s: ok.
tom nordheim: same time next weekend?
Anbarasan s: altitute control.
Geoff Hilton: okay!
tom nordheim: on yahoo?
Anbarasan s: I have experience in this.
Michael Jensen: there is a unicycle gathering I woul drather like to attend...
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: I'm good with same time next weekend
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: And I'll even be early
Kirk Kittell: you can all continue to chat after I leave
Pradeep Nair: I'll be updating the wiki..not sure if I'll be able to attend.. but that's ok..
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Alrighty
Anbarasan s: i can attend the meeting on time next week.
Pradeep Nair: the time I mean..
Pradeep Nair: I mean only my part of the Wiki and a list of other cubesat projects..
Geoff Hilton: me too
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Pradeep, if you need help updating the Wiki in general, just let me know
Pradeep Nair: yeah..thanx..
Kirk Kittell: and Nikko, please feel free to help Lavina or anyone as much as you want
Pradeep Nair: I think I've sent a list out of the projs. if people could add some projects it'd be great...me doing it alone will take some time..
Nikko Torcita: ok
Kirk Kittell: and you can join the email list: http://www.seds.org/mailman/listinfo/sedsat2
Nikko Torcita: ok thx
Michael Jensen: geoff, you should join the list as well
Geoff Hilton: will do
Pradeep Nair: I think we can wrap this meet up and we can all concentrate on one week of research...?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Pradeep, I added a bunch of projects
Pradeep Nair: thanks..
Anbarasan s: ok so i need to do a basic research on Attitude control?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: Was it one, or two?
Lavina Parwaniina Parwani: weeks, I mean
Michael Jensen: so we go through all the missions currently posted on with wiki and read up on hwatever they have posted in terms of our chosen subsystem...
Kirk Kittell: yes, Mike
Kirk Kittell: I think it would be very useful to have a table with all of the different projects and their subsystems listed
Kirk Kittell: sorry -- subsystem components
Kirk Kittell: since now we are looking for specific info
Kirk Kittell: ok
Kirk Kittell: I have just sent an email with the names of the subsystem leads
Kirk Kittell: will send another later -- have another meeting first
Kirk Kittell: by the way, you should introduce yourselves at http://blogs.seds.org/sedsat2
Kirk Kittell: (is anyone still there, or am I disconnected?)
Anbarasan S: ok then i will go though the past missions.
Anbarasan S: ok then meet you all online next week same time.

tom.nordheim: ok bye guys, I have to do some java now

Pradeep Nair: enjoy tom..
Geoff Hilton: eep
Geoff Hilton: yeah, enjoy!
Michael Jensen: most tasks, once understood, are simple not easy necessarilly, but simple
Michael Jensen: chears all!
Lavina Parwani: Cheers
Lavina Parwani: Is anyone staying at all?
Lavina Parwani: hehe
Geoff Hilton: well
Michael Jensen: I'm still here
Michael Jensen: shall we talk about short philipinos?
Anbarasan S has left the conference.

Geoff Hilton: Mike, how would rubber springs work?
Lavina Parwani: Sure. And also about the concave idea
Pradeep Nair: better be leaving bye..

tom.nordheim: btw if anyone uses msn my email is ein.av.vangsgutane@gmail.com

Lavina Parwani: And the springs
Geoff Hilton: yeah
Michael Jensen: I don't use msn, but I will send you an e-mail

tom.nordheim: then use tom.nordheim@gmail.com instead

Geoff Hilton: how much of the concave surface idea did you catch, leo?
Pradeep Nair: Kirk seems to be having some troubles..
Lavina Parwani: Added on MSN
Lavina Parwani: Nothing at all. I sort of came late (said the girl, sheepishly)
Lavina Parwani: I was online but for some reason thought that the meeting was at 11
Pradeep Nair: http://wiki.seds.org/index.php?title=SEDSAT-2_20061203_Transcript : Please copy the transcript of the chat to the address given..
Pradeep Nair: after you guys have finished..
Lavina Parwani: Will do
Geoff Hilton: oh, right, okay
Pradeep Nair has left the conference.

Lavina Parwani: So, concave surface idea?
Michael Jensen: By rubber spring, I mean the simplest thing you can possibly immagine. a strip of (springy) rubber or plastic folded in half length wise, that when released, will deploy whatever devices it was connecting...
Geoff Hilton: the idea is rather simple, thankfully, 1+ surfaces of the satellite could be concave
Geoff Hilton: and act as a satellite dish
Lavina Parwani: Oh, nice!
Michael Jensen: four sides of the cube could fold out with rubber springs...
Geoff Hilton: I figure we need to maximize our use of the surface area we're provided, so we could have multiple-purpose instruments
Michael Jensen: making the total area 4 times bigger and doubbling the radius...
Geoff Hilton: eg. the gravity boom (if it looks as it does in my head) could act as..err, that thing that juts out of the centre of the dish
Michael Jensen: radius being proportional to resolution
Michael Jensen: you don't know what that is called do you?
Michael Jensen: let's call it the antena...
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: No, but these are great ideas
Michael Jensen: I think it is actually the receiver, that receives the signal collected by the dish
Geoff Hilton: and another instrument (or more) could make up part of the boom, so that could be 3 instruments in the space of one
Lavina Parwani: Have we discussed what the "instruments" are going to be?
Geoff Hilton: I see what you mean mike, that sounds really interesting
Michael Jensen: every time we cram more instrumentation in, we increase the complexity and difficulty and probability of something not working
Michael Jensen: not that we shouldn't try
Michael Jensen: just be careful
Michael Jensen: not let our imaginations run away with ourselves
Geoff Hilton: (10:40:00 AM) * Michael Jensen: let's call it the antena... <-- I woke up minutes before the meeting, thankyouverymuch
Michael Jensen: but keep going, because ihis is quite interesting
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: it is, very
Lavina Parwani: but I agree with Mike that we shouldn't try and cram too much into it.
Geoff Hilton: aww shucks
Michael Jensen: golden, remind me what your name is-unless you watn to be called golden?
Geoff Hilton: and here I was, letting my imagination run wild
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: Lavina Parwaniina
Michael Jensen: I'm to lazy to scroll up and search
Nikko Torcita: need to go now guys
Michael Jensen: take care nikko
Nikko Torcita: have 2 exams to pound tomorrow
Michael Jensen: happy research
Lavina Parwani: Sorry Geoff
Geoff Hilton: bye Nikko!
Nikko Torcita: thanks for inviting me
Lavina Parwani: Ciao, Nikko
Geoff Hilton: haha
Nikko Torcita: thx thx
Nikko Torcita: gtg
Nikko Torcita: bye bye
Nikko Torcita has left the conference.

Geoff Hilton: well let's see...
Michael Jensen: Lavina, what are your thoughts on the project?
Geoff Hilton: the dish and antenna is 2 instruments, then?
Michael Jensen: but geoff, let me not cut you off
Lavina Parwani: To be honest, I haven't had much time to think on it; it's end of term and everything's coming to a head
Lavina Parwani: So far, I really like your ideas on making creative use of space
Geoff Hilton: ..all we need to do is make the antenna a gravity boom, I figure that would be simple, if the boom needs to move, communications could be delayed if necessary, until the completion of the movement(s)
Lavina Parwani: Have we discussed payload?
Michael Jensen: it will be a remote sensing aattelite
Lavina Parwani: hehe.
Michael Jensen: so a camera of some kind
Lavina Parwani: Alright then
Geoff Hilton: thanks Lavina
Geoff Hilton: I'd like to think we could cram more than a camera though
Lavina Parwani: I'd like to think so too
Lavina Parwani: I mean, we have all of 10 cm a side!

tom.nordheim: depends on what kind of camera

Lavina Parwani: And believe it or not, I'm not being sarcastic
Lavina Parwani: Tom's right

tom.nordheim: and ir camera for example would need extensive cooling systems

Geoff Hilton: we have so many possibilities, years ago Microsoft released a wristwatch that you could also use to check the weather and local news headlines, sports scores, things like that
Geoff Hilton: so I refuse to believe we can't combine!
Lavina Parwani: Alright. How extensive are the cooling systems needed for an IR camera?
Michael Jensen: I like the idea of using space to promote international unity
Lavina Parwani: Oh, me too
Lavina Parwani: And international cooperation
Lavina Parwani: which really, is the same difference
Michael Jensen: if our sattelite could do something to promote communication...
Geoff Hilton: how much heat does an IR camera produce?
Michael Jensen: peace...
Michael Jensen: study the environment...
Lavina Parwani: I was just waiting for you to say "World Peace"
Geoff Hilton: hahaha
Geoff Hilton: he told me about that last night
Geoff Hilton: "think, no more wars!"
Geoff Hilton: or something
Lavina Parwani: study the environment with tiny thing?
Lavina Parwani: wow
Lavina Parwani: hmm
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: The wonder of the world, in a tiny little box!
Geoff Hilton: the realist in me says that wars will just turn into a galactic scale :S
Michael Jensen: perhaps take high resolution pictures of community projects that are cool and help out invarious ways...
Geoff Hilton: hehe
Lavina Parwani: I'm with you Geoff
Geoff Hilton: yup
Michael Jensen: conflict is unlikelly to end
Geoff Hilton: yup
Lavina Parwani: Low Earth Orbit right?
Michael Jensen: ya..
Geoff Hilton: besides, you know how it works, Life is a Parabole (c) Geoff 2006
Lavina Parwani: Haha
Lavina Parwani: Parabola, you mean?
Lavina Parwani: And that is awesome; I'm quoting you on that
Geoff Hilton: eh, aye
Geoff Hilton: haha
Geoff Hilton: sounds good!
Michael Jensen: we really need to find out more about what other sattelites have done
Lavina Parwani: hehe
Lavina Parwani: Yes we do
Lavina Parwani: Until then, we're shooting blind
Michael Jensen: so what are you doing in the philipines other than dreaming of space?
Lavina Parwani: You know. I had the strangest idea. You know we have an orbital debris problem, right?
Michael Jensen: yes
Geoff Hilton: yeah
Geoff Hilton: And we're contributing, hurrah!
Lavina Parwani: Oh, I'm studying Mechanical Engineering, and dreaming of space is pretty much most of what I do, if you don't count the hours I spend watching BsG, Doctor Who and Torchwood
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: Well, maybe we can use this CubeSat to help combat that problem
Geoff Hilton: hahaha
Michael Jensen: never seen any of then
Lavina Parwani: Oxymoron, I know, but couldn't we use it to sense and map the orbital debris currently in orbit
Lavina Parwani: ?
Geoff Hilton: I could swear that sentence could have come from a pick-up line
Lavina Parwani: Which one would that be, Geoff?
Geoff Hilton: mechanical engineering and so on
Lavina Parwani: Wow
Lavina Parwani: I'm just that witty, I guess
Geoff Hilton: Yup!
Lavina Parwani: hehe
Michael Jensen: geoff clearly has one thing on his mind
Lavina Parwani: Clearly
Geoff Hilton: Hah.
Lavina Parwani: But then I've found that most men suffer from that affliction
Lavina Parwani: So, poor me
Geoff Hilton: Aye
Lavina Parwani: The only woman in this room
Lavina Parwani: Whatever shall I do
Lavina Parwani: Hell, the only woman in this group
Geoff Hilton: Flower Power!
Lavina Parwani: HA!
Michael Jensen: come to canada!
Lavina Parwani: Would you say that wraps up the Satellite-y part of this conversation?
Lavina Parwani: Hahaha.
Geoff Hilton: so if we were to enumerate the subsystems I bet we could figure out the components for each and where they could go...maybe how we could combine them *cough*
Geoff Hilton: lol
Lavina Parwani: system integration
Lavina Parwani: but that could only be discussed after more research
Michael Jensen: nasa is currently tracking a lot of orbital debris
Lavina Parwani: They have to
Lavina Parwani: They'll run out space, and then they'll run out of business
Lavina Parwani: and boom. Bye, NASA
Lavina Parwani: Good thing India is planning a manned space program, eh?
Geoff Hilton: they are?
Lavina Parwani: (I'm Indian, so my hopes currently lie with them)
Lavina Parwani: Yep
Michael Jensen: and japan, and china...
Geoff Hilton: :)
Lavina Parwani: It's definitely on the table
Lavina Parwani: Well, yeah
Lavina Parwani: But India is most recent
Michael Jensen: india, the new china...
Geoff Hilton: what subsystems are you handling Lavina?
Lavina Parwani: Communications :)
Lavina Parwani: Nikko is an Electronics and Communications major and he expressed interest in having PhilSEDS explore that option
Lavina Parwani: So I thought, why not :)
Geoff Hilton: eh, you and I (Command and Data Handling) will have a lot of research in common then
Geoff Hilton: or at least, for the Command bit
Lavina Parwani: That's good
Geoff Hilton: cool :)
Lavina Parwani: How often will you be online?
Michael Jensen: the research is for the comming week
Lavina Parwani: That way, if something meshes we can ping each other
Michael Jensen: we are all working together essentially
Geoff Hilton: I'm online 24/7, whether I'm at the computer or not is a different story
Lavina Parwani: I really wish we had two weeks
Geoff Hilton: but even then, I'm reachable pretty often
Lavina Parwani: That's good then
Lavina Parwani: I can just leave a message in any case
Michael Jensen: I check e-mail 3 times a day :)
Geoff Hilton: definitly mike
Michael Jensen: we could become the communications team :)
Lavina Parwani: wow
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: Yep :)
Geoff Hilton: hehe yup
Lavina Parwani: Don't you love technology?
Michael Jensen: that way my masters could continue using the sattelite...
Geoff Hilton: what're your subsystems again mike?
Michael Jensen: techonology is great... when it works :)
Geoff Hilton: <3 Technology
Lavina Parwani: hee
Geoff Hilton: except when it crashes.
Michael Jensen: power for the moment
Lavina Parwani: Ramne
Lavina Parwani: *Ramen
Lavina Parwani: Dammit
Geoff Hilton: hehehe
Michael Jensen: systems integration interests me
Lavina Parwani: that would have had more impact without the typo
Michael Jensen: everything interests me really :
Geoff Hilton: ditto
Lavina Parwani: And here as well
Lavina Parwani: I just don't know how much I can contribute
Geoff Hilton: I just thought of something
Michael Jensen: but I most like things that move
Lavina Parwani: I have very little knowledge or experience
Lavina Parwani: what did you think of, Geoff?
Geoff Hilton: a bobble-head as the sat dish's antenna
Geoff Hilton: heh
Geoff Hilton: heck, there's your gravity boom
Michael Jensen: go geoff!
Michael Jensen: I can't say I really understand...
Geoff Hilton: put cameras in the little guy's head and you're set
Geoff Hilton: there's not much to understand
Geoff Hilton: lol
Geoff Hilton: though eh..
Geoff Hilton: if you could control the bobble
Geoff Hilton: that could work!
Lavina Parwani: whoa
Lavina Parwani: Haha
Michael Jensen: by controlling the boble
Lavina Parwani: Brilliant, if you can control the bobble
Michael Jensen: you control where you are looking?
Lavina Parwani: but
Geoff Hilton: haha
Geoff Hilton: yeah!
Lavina Parwani: bobble
Lavina Parwani: isn't the definition of a bobble something that you can't control?
Lavina Parwani: unless I'm thinking of wobble
Geoff Hilton: lol
Michael Jensen: bobbles have a deffinite bobble about them...
Geoff Hilton: well, bobble heads work by outside forces creating motion which the bobble-head reacts to, by bobbling
Michael Jensen: I would not put bobble in a technical paper :)
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: Neither would I
Geoff Hilton: so uh...if the satellite changes position with attitude control
Lavina Parwani: but for Y!M that works
Michael Jensen: bobble wobble :)
Lavina Parwani: as do "thingy" and "stuff"
Geoff Hilton: that could be a way of controlling the bobble indirectly
Geoff Hilton: hahaha
Michael Jensen: I'll stick to gliders and sling shots :)
Lavina Parwani: Although I'll have you know that "stuff" is Shakespearean
Michael Jensen: woooo!
Lavina Parwani: Or you know, there could be a mechanical system in the boom that controls the...bobble
Michael Jensen: famous for a reason!
Lavina Parwani: HAHA
Geoff Hilton: tis!
Lavina Parwani: 'Tis!
Geoff Hilton: sounds good lavina
Michael Jensen: this is the role of the satellites orientation system
Geoff Hilton: would we want the movement to be fluid or mechanical?
Michael Jensen: escept that changing the orientation of the bobble might be easier than changing it for the whole sattelite...
Lavina Parwani: exactly, Mike
Lavina Parwani: and isn't a fluid system more bulky?
Geoff Hilton: yeah
Lavina Parwani: Unless we can figure out a nano-fluid system
Geoff Hilton: not if it's not part of the design
Michael Jensen: how would a fluid system work?
Geoff Hilton: that probably didn't come out right, but..
Geoff Hilton: if you allow for fluid movement by reducing mobility rather than creating it
Geoff Hilton: that might allow it
Michael Jensen: like attaching the antena (bobble) to a baloon and manipulating the baloon by poking it?
Geoff Hilton: the mobility might come from a different source (whether inertial or mechanical) which reorients it
Geoff Hilton: exactly
Michael Jensen: that could actually work!
Michael Jensen: a helium filled balloon?!
Geoff Hilton: haha
Lavina Parwani: a balloon?
Lavina Parwani: really?
Lavina Parwani: No.. really?
Geoff Hilton: I don't know where the balloon came in
Lavina Parwani: Have you tried randomly poking a balloon?
Michael Jensen: a small balloon...
Geoff Hilton: but that's an idea
Lavina Parwani: Mike used it as a metaphor
Geoff Hilton: I got that much ;)
Michael Jensen: 1-5 milimiters wide
Tom Nordheim: there are some restrictions on having gas under pressure etc in the p-pod I believe
Geoff Hilton: what do you mean tom?
Geoff Hilton: at launch in the shuttle?
Michael Jensen: the walls of the balloon could be charged and magnets could be used to poke it
Lavina Parwani: huh
Lavina Parwani: I never thought of that
Lavina Parwani: interesting
Geoff Hilton: me neither, yup
Tom Nordheim: there are some restrictions on what your cube can contain
Michael Jensen: no mechanical components, really :)
Geoff Hilton: but..how would that create bobble?
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: Sorry
Geoff Hilton: oh right, the balloon is attached to the head
Geoff Hilton: hah
Geoff Hilton: oh, I see, tom :)
Michael Jensen: no, we do not want to tear the balloon :)
Michael Jensen: time for breakfast :)
Lavina Parwani: wait
Geoff Hilton: well, at worse, there would be auxilliary methods
Lavina Parwani: the balloon is attached to the head?
Geoff Hilton: maybe a crude mechanism that kicks in if the balloon pops, heh
Michael Jensen: the balloon is inside the sattelite, the bobbble is attached to the protruding part, when the balloon deforms, the bobble moves
Geoff Hilton: 0.o
Lavina Parwani: wow
Michael Jensen: this would have to be a very suffisticated baloon :)
Lavina Parwani: doesn't allow for minute movements
Lavina Parwani: HAHA
Geoff Hilton: how does the balloon's deformation move the bobble?
Lavina Parwani: Here's somthing else:
Lavina Parwani: Tom says:

we thought about doing that on bifrost too Tom says: that would be a problem with optics etc, since the boom wasn't that big Lav says: ah Tom says: and it would have to be compressed a bit, they are normally rolled up Tom says: like tape measure thing

Geoff Hilton: with fluid movement, is minute movement less of a concern?
Michael Jensen: you could deform the balloons surface atan angle, maybe at an angle would not be necessary...
Michael Jensen: think of a membrane, manipulated at the edges
Geoff Hilton: Tom: someone else has thought of using balloons before?
Tom Nordheim: no this wasn't about using a balloon, I'm not sure what the balloon idea was about(I was away for a while)
Tom Nordheim: but this was about having a camera on the gravity boom
Geoff Hilton: oh okay
Michael Jensen: I don't see how a balloon does not allow for minute movements..
Tom Nordheim: what is the deal with the balloon?
Geoff Hilton: hehe, good question
Michael Jensen: spontaneous thought
Geoff Hilton: yup
Michael Jensen: interpretation of how fluid systems could work
Michael Jensen: how do they work normally?
Geoff Hilton: it would be used to control the orientation of the bobble head..which is the concave satellite dish's antenna
Tom Nordheim: but why not use servos?
Lavina Parwani: I don't think I really understand the balloons, so I'm going to just read for a bit :P
Michael Jensen: indeed
Geoff Hilton: wow, it probably isn't a final design (duh), but it's already coming together in my head
Geoff Hilton: tom: servos could break
Geoff Hilton: inertial forces don't
Michael Jensen: the balloon is simple are servos simple?
Tom Nordheim: yes very
Michael Jensen: we are taling about a rubber membrand controled by mini-magnets...
Tom Nordheim: but in general the less moveable parts, the less chance of trouble
Geoff Hilton: so at worse, if the balloon bursts, you can reorient the cameras in the bobble head indirectly by the inertia created from the movement of the satellite itself
Michael Jensen: sure...
Tom Nordheim: hmm I understand now, so using the balloon thing to move the camera around?=
Michael Jensen: if you have a membrane with rippage control, you don't need to wory about bursting :)
Geoff Hilton: good thought
Geoff Hilton: right, tom
Michael Jensen: just use the frame of the sattelite to keep it taught...
Geoff Hilton: ?
Lavina Parwani: good thought Mike
Geoff Hilton: you mean pull on the outsides of the balloon?
Michael Jensen: you could also use the magnet controled membrane as your dish
Michael Jensen: yes
Lavina Parwani: Nice
Geoff Hilton: ...in all directions at once?
Lavina Parwani: yeah
Michael Jensen: telescoped already use this idea
Lavina Parwani: Although we have to be careful of oversimplification
Geoff Hilton: oh? cool
Geoff Hilton: true
Lavina Parwani: Well, guys, as fun as this was, I have to go :(
Geoff Hilton: Choose Two: Good, Fast, Cheap
Geoff Hilton: heh
Lavina Parwani: Two tests tomorrow :(
Lavina Parwani: haha
Lavina Parwani: Good and Cheap
Michael Jensen: their surfaces are controled my metal fingers that change their shape... our metal fingers could be mini magnets , the dish material chrged on one side
Geoff Hilton: hehehe yup, pretty much
Geoff Hilton: the magnets would affect the electronics though, no?
Geoff Hilton: unless they're shielded..
Michael Jensen: perhaps...
Tom Nordheim: unless you have any sensor, it should be ok
Geoff Hilton: bye lavina, nice meeting you!
Tom Nordheim: I would think
Lavina Parwani: You too :)
Geoff Hilton: :)
Michael Jensen: the antena could be connected directly to the membrane dish
Michael Jensen: by lavina!
Lavina Parwani: Nice meeting you all, actually. Have a great day :)
Michael Jensen: nice meeting you!
Tom Nordheim: but obviously, if you have a magnethometer it might be a problem

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Category: SEDSAT-2 Meetings

SEDSAT-2 Meeting Transcript 20061203

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